Q: At the same time, you describe civilization in general as tribalist. How can we live in an open world if we are inherently tribalist?

A: If we can't solve that, there's not much hope for us. There's both openness and tribalism within us. Homo sapiens got so far because we cooperated and made use of the ideas, from hunting and gathering in a better way to venturing out in space or reading the genome of a virus. It is possible because we can make use of the ideas and knowledge of others.

The problem is, historically, once we climbed to the top of the food chain, the only thing that could threaten us again was other groups of people who cooperated even better. We had to be a little bit concerned about what they were up to over there, the neighbours, that other tribe, that other nation. That's our tribalism.

Historically, it doesn't take much to trigger this – as anyone who's been to a sporting event knows. Watch soccer. Just having a different colored shirt means that you cheer for the wrong team. Therefore, we have to beat you up. Very small, almost arbitrary groupings can trigger this tribal mindset. That's worrying.

It is also the way out of the worst aspects of tribalism. We constantly shift groupings and see other cues that describe those in other groups as having something in common with us. We've gone from just being loyal to our kin, our tribe, the village, the nation. We now think that nationalism as sort of traditional, but that's a 19th century invention.

The key is to find out that we have many different circles of loyalty, I might be a Swede and therefore, historically, I might have been an enemy of the Norwegians, our neighbours. On the other hand, I can also see that we share an idea about open society and an open world. I can see there are Norwegians who also love playing tennis, who are interested in history and literature, and are fathers and mothers just like we are here. I have another circle of loyalty and empathy with them. Therefore, I should be able to get along with them.

Tribalism is always there. It is pre-wired. However, the particular tribalism that we express, is very fluid, changes with the cultural atmosphere, and what our leaders say. The key is to have a culture that tells us more about what we have in common rather than what sets us apart.

Q: If that's the case, could that be applicable to, say, trade blocs. Can trade blocs be more creative in fashioning this culture that keeps the coalition together?

A: Absolutely. Historically, Sweden was a war-faring nation. The moment we had a chance, we invaded our neighbours. We were constantly at war with Denmark. But there was a group of people who opposed that. They lived in southern Sweden and northern Denmark and traded with one another. They constantly made secret peace agreements with one another because they wanted to exchange goods and services. We even had a saying: the oxen made peace because oxen going across the borders. People thought about how they could make use of the skills and the power of the neighbours rather than see them as a threat.

That's what we do when we trade and make trade agreements with one another. We are building new connections and partnerships and friendships across borders. That's not always enough to create harmonious relationships or even peace in the long run. But it's much better than the alternative – of looking at the neighbours through binoculars and knowing that anything they did that made them more powerful could be a threat. Now we know that when they come up with a new way of transmitting electricity or a treatment to a disease, that will save us as well.

Q: Dan Ikenson outlines, rightly so, that trade negotiators are always arguing for more exports and less imports. It goes back to that zero-sum mentality - if you have a gain that means less for us, right? That's a difficult mindset to change.